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5249938 hits

A League for All Player Levels
  Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 at 10:20:34 PM | aS valor
  Thorian's post on a new league got me thinking, something i hate to do, so i'll be brief. If there was a league where players, despite skill level, could sign up individually and then be placed on a team with 2 other randomly selected players, would anyone be interested? I have thought about making it an elimination tournament, so u play until you lose, inorder to keep things goin quick, and so people get a chance to play with a bunch of different players. Maps: i would really not change anything, except maybe att ctf_multidemo, a great map, especially for the small teams. Anyway, tell me if you think this could work, or if i should /uninstall :)

Read Comments (25)
.:Back to Top:.

  Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 at 10:31:01 PM | (7*up)LoXodonte v | ^ | #
I like the 3v3 part. :)

  Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 at 10:33:02 PM | -opp bigbear- v | ^ | #
The old admins of the Dropscape Server did a 3v3 or 4v4 tourney a very long time ago where you signed up and were randomly assigned to teams...I think I played with Noodles and Cyno from nyx (at the time) and one of the DS-P guys. It was hella fun. Definately something that people would enjoy.

  Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 at 11:11:04 PM | -|ts|-Ulu4 v | ^ | #
3's or 4's with random team assignment would be fun.

  Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 at 11:22:05 PM | OpZ v | ^ | #
I tried this many moons ago and the response was pathetic. Also I introduce as evidence the "States Cup". I played with Nw and tried to have fun (1001) but, too much hate in this community to make any of that work, imo. I also submit to your honor, the last damning evidence, "This league blows sack" sign ups.
I rest my case.
OK, Im no R.B. but I got some skillz??!?

  Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 at 12:09:34 AM | ==*{SGT.DICK}*== v | ^ | #
It's hard to pair random people together. Ganja Palace is trying and it's difficult to get everyone on the same page.

  Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 at 12:23:34 AM | Thorian v | ^ | #
Ideas like this and States Cup have been tried in other games as well but I've never seen them work unfortunately (although it'd be fun if they did). The problem is that many of the gamers that get involved in this sort of thing are ultra-competitive and want to win. If you get someone who is a great player, and knows they are a great player, the potential for them to have a bad attitude towards the lesser skilled players is a problem. Likewise no lesser skilled player wants to get insulted by some "l33t" guy. If the players in these types of events could check the ego at the door and play solely for fun then it works out. Unfortunately I'm not sure that could actually happen ... sad but true. There also becomes a major problem when three good players are randomly placed together and the rest of the teams feel slighted.

  Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 at 12:23:44 AM | v1D v | ^ | #
that'd be a great idea.....but this community is hard to work with and get anything started

  Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 at 12:43:10 AM | c][beast v | ^ | #
i will definately sign up tell me where

  Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 at 03:24:14 PM | aS valor v | ^ | #
@juv: i agree with you, but hopefully people will cooperative with one another and give this a chance.(snowball in hell chance i know, but keep da faith)

@thorian: i did think about the "l337" players feeling shafted when they are paired with a so called "nubs", aswell as the teams that are made up of all great players, and it wouldn't be that bad, since the league moves quickly. Unfair teams would not stay that way, after a "season" is over, the teams are done and a new rotation is in order(fine tuning to be thought in greater detail later). As far as insulting another player, this isn't a pub, nor is a Cal-M match, its for fun, cause as we've all seen, pubs turn into retards gene pool fairly quickly, ruining any fun. In addtion, if people can remove the broomstick from their ass *looks at nate and doNka*, and enjoy the game, i would not be at all suprised if this turned about to be a "ripp-roarin good time"

@vid: nothing a strong bitch slap to the face can't handle :p

@:beast: that's the attitude

  Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 at 04:36:23 PM | fu|spitfire v | ^ | #
if you got it to work, i'd play.

getting everyone else to cooperate with one another might be a challenge.

what if beast and serb got paired? looking at the other news post that probably wouldn't fly to well. :p

  Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 at 04:39:10 PM | fu|spitfire v | ^ | #
but it'd be fun.

  Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 at 05:18:35 PM | Thorian v | ^ | #
There's an idea - put the players that don't get along onto the same teams

  Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 at 05:35:13 PM | fu|spitfire v | ^ | #

  Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 at 06:03:10 PM | s|tempest v | ^ | #
There's an idea - put the players that don't get along onto the same teams"

do ittt

  Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 at 08:01:10 PM | Mortal :o v | ^ | #
Good idea, a little late tho... will not work out :/.

  Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 at 12:11:28 AM | Major-Jedi v | ^ | #
i think this league should be called PUG league since it is exactly what pugs are except some minor details but think about it. id play too.

  Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 at 01:07:50 AM | TWL|ZedsDead v | ^ | #
Guys. TWL has offered competition like this for a couple of years. The TWL Power ladder setup offers an oportunity for players and teams to deal with each other and have little to no Admin intervention. We had offered to set one up about a year ago but there was little interest.

However if there is renewed interest in doing this sort of setup I amd sure we could do one.

here are the basic "Power Ladder rules:

Specifics of Power Ladders


The most important thing about power ladders is that they have been setup to have as little admin intervention as possible. That being said every aspect of these matches must be agreed upon by both parties. If the 2 teams cannot agree on something and there is no room for compromise then either team can simply decline the challenge. Unlike other ladders, no team is forced to play a match they don't want to they can decline at any time.

The admin pannel for the power ladders are a bit different since the ladder offers teams the ability to have as many challenges with other teams as they want. The first thing you will notice is that there is a form for the date and the ability to have 5 maps picked.

The way it works is one team proposes a date and a list of maps, we will call this team team A. Team B then looks at their admin panel and it will display to them the time, date and map choices team A has offered them. They have 3 options from here, option 1 is to accept time and date and the map(s). Option 2 is to change the map selection proposing different maps or changing the date and time. If option 2 is chosen then team A now has the 3 options for them to chose. Option 3 is Team B to simply decline the challenge.

You can customize every part of the match with the opposing team or simply use the default ladder rules and size etc... It all depends on what you agree, again if you can't agree then you just kill the match and move on. It's that simple.

  Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 at 03:34:47 PM | Spiza v | ^ | #
zed, how is that like anything valor was talking about, rofl.

  Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 at 04:29:29 PM | warzone v | ^ | #
Throw in some prizes and people will definetly sign up :x

  Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 at 12:42:34 AM | TWL|ZedsDead v | ^ | #
Nox,Both Thorian and Valors discussions bring up less restrictive Competition situations. Thats why i brought it up here instead of creating a new news item on et-center.

  Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 at 04:41:51 AM | conscious* v | ^ | #
I think Jedi is gay :P

  Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 at 04:43:07 AM | conscious* v | ^ | #
The prize for the last place team can be transit and ryans gay porn film.

  Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 at 06:55:23 PM | Thorian v | ^ | #
Less restrictive maybe, but hands off? No way. All I advocate is that you don't let the rules interfere with the playing of the game. TWL is notorious for completely assinine decisions based off some anal rule that has no bearing on the incident that took place. The intention of the rule is good but the way it then gets abused is BS. I'd rather put some faith in the players by not having to spell out every single little thing they can or cannot do and trust they know how to play their own game. Then if anybody tries to pull some BS you can just smack them upside the head and say "knock that shit off, you got rolled fair and square."

Further, ladder play is a nice break and all but leagues are where the competition is. You can't put too much effort where a team can go 80-0, lose one game, and are suddenly #2 to the 1-0 team. Ranking should be decided on overall performance, not on what happened the night before.

So yeah, nice idea and all Zed but not quite what any of us are looking for. If you want to help make TWL more popular then tell your admins to quit being anal about everything. They get in the way more than they help IMO.

  Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 at 07:26:29 PM | TWL|ZedsDead v | ^ | #
Thorian, I truly wish you luck with any attempts you have at setting up a league. If you are successful, you will realize that in most cases admins are dragged into dealing with situations by the demands of the teams, players and communities.

5 yrs ago when we started TWL we had 1 basic rule when we created our first ladder.

"Un-sportsmanlike conduct during matches will not be tolerated by the TWL. If an admin is called in to resolve an issue regarding un-sportsmanlike conduct the judgment/punishment will be swift, efficient and final. We here at the TWL suggest you conduct yourselves accordingly.

"Simple, straight forward... Play nice."

This was our only rule for a couple months. I might add thats about 5-6 more rules then your basic rule-set. So your more restrictive then we were ;)

What im trying to say is that rules develop out of situations that arise on the leagues and ladders. Its unfortunte that they do have to be created but the reality is that people dont simply "play nice" .

Competition rules evolve in the same manner that cfg restrictions do.

Back to the ladder idea. Im well aware that leagues are whats considered most popular. The reason why i mention this setup was due to its unrestrictive nature. The ladder doesnt have to run like a ladder. First off "Power ladders" use a chess based scoring system so its more about the "quality" of team you play that determines your position on the ladder. Its actually a score based system that allows lower and upper ladder rung challenges.

Its also about how you want to run can be run like a league.

Example: would need at least 1-2 people to assist running.

1. assign someone to do a schedule who contacts the teams in which each team makes a challenge of that scheduled team.
2. each team agrees to play 1 match a week. within a determined few days...say sun-thurs.
3. at the end of a predetermined amount of time say 8-10 weeks a tourny bracket can be setup for playoffs for the top 8-16 teams.

It doesnt have to be called a power ladder. It will however have a "laddery" look to it.

One nice feature of the power ladder is the scoring.. it actually works to determine who gets in playoffs. nothing like a normal ladder.

The setup is there so there is no admin intervention. Teams cant get along...they simply "kill" the match and neither gets credit. If they want credit..then they simply make the match work. Also Power ladders have no dispute function.

Just an offer and an idea. Thats all it is. Not trying to piss on your idea....more or less support of it. Good luck either way.

  Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 at 06:16:53 PM | Thorian v | ^ | #
Zed you talk like I've no experience with leagues. I was the head admin for all the Q3 leagues in CAL at one point, and ran the Q3TDM league. I also was an admin in OGL before TWL or CAL were even born. I know all about the history of TWL as I was there the day you guys opened your doors and followed the Tribes competition. So yeah, I'm no rookie at this sort of thing.

I understand completely why rules end up being written the way they do. It's not the intention that I question about TWL, it's the application. I also happen to be a pro level soccer referee, and I believe the philosophy of actual sports need to be transferred to that of gaming. Basically, the rules are not there to DEFINE how the game is played, they are there to DESCRIBE how the game was already being played before they were written. What this means is that you don't simply look at a specific rule literally and apply precisely what it says no matter what. Instead you take a look at the intention of the rule and the problem it is attempting to solve, then use it to solve that particular problem. You don't start applying black and white criteria to all situations when the rule was never intended to be used that way. This is a concept the TWL admins seem to have absolutely no graps of whatsoever.

Further, the whole point of NOT using something like CAL or TWL is so that we DON'T get stuck in a template. Sure we might be able to modify the rules and the format and all that good stuff as much as we want -- but what happens when we want to add a fantasy league feature? Or maybe track player stats and offer up weekly awards? Or maybe we don't want our league lumped in on a single page with the 5 other leagues a player happens to be in. People tend to miss things due to information overload when you do things like that. Or maybe we want to change the scoring and scheduling format to one that isn't programmed by default in the TWL?

The point is, I'm an accomplished programmer and administrator. I personally do not need TWL or CAL or OGL or STA to run a league. I have other gaming friends that would rather do our own league outside the boundaries of those organizations as well. We feel that by seperating from the others, we can provide a more enjoyable and more CUSTOMIZED league designed specifically to address the needs and wants of the people that play RTCW. TWL simply cannot provide this level of detail no matter how much you might try.

Don't get me wrong Zed - for the most part I enjoy playing in TWL and don't have any problems. I just have had too many run-ins with administrators who don't realize their position is not one of dictatorship, but of service, and would rather start up my own league.

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